"I offer no solutions... merely an analysis of a problem."
Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus: A Practical Guide for Improving Communication and Getting What You Want in Your Relationships was, and still is, a classic of the relationship literature genre whose central thesis is nicely summed up in the title, to wit; that men and women are alien species to one another and that, absent training in decoding foreign-language messages, static invariably interferes with communications that are "garbled in translation".
More and more today, as part of the larger and multifaceted Shidduch-Crisis, we are seeing families wherein young men cannot /will not/do not court and marry women akin to their sisters and vice versa. This cannot but cause some communicative dissonance that, if not worked at to overcome, may metastasize into serious Shlom Bayis issues down the road.
Allow me to explicate: Qlei Qodesh, Career Mechanchim and "Lifer"-Kollelniks tend, disproportionately, to raise children inculcated with the values of "Torah for life" and "Secular studies are bad and bad for you". The boys growing up in these homes see learning in Brisk as the culmination of their dreams of sophisticated lomdus studied among like-minded and high-power-brain-endowed individuals in an ambiance of snarky kishron and being Mehavel Olam HaZeh and petit bourgeoisie Jewish society values. (See, in particular quote from Dante Alighieri) The girls raised in such homes view marrying such boys and being their helpmeets as a goal, nay THE goal, to be strived for. Both genders tend to grow up in families that are, if not absolutely impoverished, struggling, frugal and "uncomfortable" because money was always tight.
And here's where the dissonance begins. Both explicitly and implicitly, parents of such boys instruct them to seek "rich shidduchim" not (necessarily) because they are "gold-diggers" or seek "trophy" makhatonim or DILs but simply because, having struggled financially themselves, they'd prefer for their sons not to repeat their own history and to be able to learn ad infinitum with מנוחת הנפש= "tranquility of spirit". More often than not this means the boys, and/or their parents, pursuing PhDs="Poppa has Dough" shidduchim rather than young ladies with advanced degrees and/or lucrative careers, for these girls have been through the "contaminating" halls of academia and, as wives and mothers, might fail to inform the future Bayis Ne'eman with the necessary sanctity and purity.
OTOH these boys sisters MUST go to Ma'alot or to Raizel Wright (did I spell that wright or rong?) because, wanting Brisker Khasanim but lacking PHDs they must present shadkhanim with an alterantive "plan" for life support. A few of the more daring ones might venture into the hashqafically compromised classrooms of Touro, but none would dare go to Stern or, בר מינן an actual "Goyisha" college/university. And even if they might actually gaze favorably, yet wistfully, upon the superior education and wider career choices that these latter might offer, they/their parents could never afford the relatively high tuition of such Colleges.
Still, the "type" of person the girls "becomes" as a result of even this diminished form of higher secular education begins to vary from that of a mere female clone of her brother(s). Such sisters tend to become more organized, more professional, more oifgeklert and less sheltered than their brothers. In the course of their studies they will invariably become familiar in the ways and mores of surfing the web. If they are on "the market" for a few years they graduate and take jobs where they will grow more accomplished and successful in the more conventional (albeit in the more petit bourgeoisie Jewish society values ) sense of success and accomplishment than their brothers/prospective suitors. They will gain skills in dealing with a wider gamut of people from many different backgrounds in ways that their brothers/ prospective suitors will not and, more importantly, will not desire to.
In a word, the pragmatic, facts-on-the-ground realities and socioeconomic pressures inherent in preparing for a life of long-time/forever learning produces a disproportionate amount of girls whom boys like their brothers would never court and marry as "a first choice". The same families will have sons "going after" the daughters of successful, comfortable "groba" Flatbush, Boro Park and Five-Towns Baalei Batim while their own daughters will "only", nebikh, snag dates with boys from families who either "didn't make it (the cut) into Brisk" or boys from families and Yeshivas that have a less antagonistic attitude towards professionalism and their prerequisite higher secular education, i.e. less "Yeshivisha" families, than their own.
In my humble analysis this is one among the myriad of factors contributing to the "ground zero" of the shidduch crisis being the daughters of Kollenicks, Mekhankhim and sundry hardly-making-it Klei Qodesh. If lives of relative obscurity and poverty were not suffering enough they must now endure the heart wrenching spectacles of seeing their precious and beloved female offspring becoming dehydrated spinsters. I offer no solutions merely an analysis of a problem.
Qedusha-Havdala...Have you had yours today??? Hmmm???
Friday, April 23, 2010
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21 comments:
vos hut men fun dem az du gist nisht epes an eytzeh?!
a good biur - all the various parts are rational and good, but when put together create a problem.
Tzig-
Any eitzeh would have the haters out in droves. I've never garnered enough comments to develop a thick hide.
I think you are on to something. But are yeshiva boys really marrying the wealthy daughters of right wing modern Orthodox families? That seems to be what you are saying these boys are selling out to. Has anyone done any case studies as to what kind of families boys from Brisk are marrying?
not to RWMO but to Baalebatish i.e. more materialistic and less scholarly Agudah types.
Such "shvers" have the "right hashqofos" and their hearts in the right places as they still consider a Brisker Aidem a "trophy" status symbol and testament to their success as well as being worthy of their long-term/lifetime support.
But oftentimes they themselves were not great scholastic successes and can't really "talk in learning" with their own aidems and raised daughters in the lap of luxury whose tastes, values and maintenance level may be radically different from their khosons and his parents and sisters (at least pre-Ma'alot! LOL)
Will comment later, but see my new comment on fish below. Gut shabbos!
I have cousins who struggle with exactly what you describe. A family with nine children, three married young, no higher education, lifer kollelniks, babies every 18 months.
Two, now "older" single women, since they did not get married and are brilliant and wanted to be able to earn a living to better support their kollelnik spouse have been struggling to find theirs mates. They are too worldly to relate to the sheltered and myopic young men. They have friends and cowokers that they have befriended that has opened the secular world to them. But at the same remain devoted to their way of life.
Shidduchim with RW OJ YU grad types, to whom I believe they could probably relate are set off limits by their parents. The oldest cousin, now 29, seems to be set up with one nebuch after another and many divorced men as the "good ones" were taken when much younger.
I believe these families need to think outside the box. Many of these women would do very well with committed, right wing YU or the like men. Many have spent multiple yrs learning, gone into the rabbinate or professions still dedicated to a torah life. The "culture" clash is not insurmountable at all. It is minor in the scheme of things and if helps the women (and men) find appropriate mates instead of leaving them spinsters, seems to me that the parents are doing their daughters serious harm by not even allowing for the first date.
Somehow I missed a sentence. Both have professional degrees and lucrative jobs. And they are both beautiful, inside and out.
TikunOlam, that is sad in your family case that these young women cannot get married in accordance with (theirs or their parents?) wishes.
As to the larger issue - the free market works. If someone has a business model that is successful, it will continue. If not, it will fail.
So ultimately, if these full time kollel men will continue to have means of monetary support, that style of life will continue. If not, it will change. That has always been the way of the world, and I think all concerned will be just fine in the long run, no matter how things turn out over time.
I'll bet you're feeling rather happy that you've "made it" vis-a-vis comments :)
Although the idea of "making it" as a blogger being a good thing is rather dubious.
Non-
Kind of callous calculation when considering the collateral damage, i.e. all the old spinsters with broken hearts and lives, until the "market correction" happens.
TO-
Thanks for commenting and welcome back. My heart goes out to your cousins plight. Heart-rending and corroborative of the pan-societal problem that I described. Not to be too judgementle but the stubborn reluctance sounds like a damning indictment of the girls parents except for three possible limudei z'khus:
A) Who says 30-something single RW YU guys would be interested in girls like them/family situations like theirs?
B) As described in the original post who says that the girls could find compatibality with RW YU fellows? Just because they have grown more worldly than their brothers and their friends doesn't mean that they have totally lost their black-hat-Yeshivish orientation. They are "stuck" betwixt and between and are societal, if not halakhic, agunos.
C) Maybe the parents are stuck with a "Sophies Choice" of which of their children to "save" and if the older girls marry YU boys it will hurt the chances of the remaining younger children to do "normal" shidduchim.
Nebikh. Casualties of the Narciciism of Small Differences.
It's one thing to pst on thetopic and quite another to hear a heart-rending case history.
It's Reit, actually.
as in Raizel?
Anony-
I don't suppose I could entice you into commenting on something other than the spelling in this post...could I?
I am not making any general statements on who would be interested in dating who but we all have a range. My father (MO) proposed a shudduch w/ a young man who went to right of his parents for a *date.* The "no" was to the date. The singles did not say no, they were never consulted.
Having grown up exposed to both MO and yeshivish worlds, I really don't think shidduchim between the sects should be seen as some kind of mixed marriage. If it is, there is a problem on the list. You focus too narrowly, the number of possible mates decreases drastically.
And if yeshivish families are concerned w/ somehow tainting a younger child's chances at an ideal shidduch being that the older married/dated a YU guy, I could only say, I am so thankful that I have no part in that world. It is a crisis of their own making. It is emotional abusive to keep these young women from having choices which could give then a wider range of men to date, increasing their chances at find the right one.
I tend to agree. But I wouldn't call it emotionally abusive, I'd call it institutionalized indoctrination that accrues to an "einredinish"= something that you've talked yourself into. And, as the old Yiddish saying goes,אן איינרעדעניש איז ערגער ווי א קרענק = an ainredinish is worse than a diseaese, presumably a mental disease.
Changing things would require a near-total revamping of the educational system and, some might say, the very core values of the entire society.
See the caveat at the beginning and end of my post. Now perhaps you know what I mean.
And if yeshivish families are concerned w/ somehow tainting a younger child's chances at an ideal shidduch being that the older married/dated a YU guy, I could only say, I am so thankful that I have no part in that world.
Happy to validate your choices...all in a days work but IMHuO this is what we call throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
How long will it be until all the rich daddies who VALUE a full-time learner son-in-law are gone, and the system corrects itself?
Judaism is not a religion for isolationists. We are told to engage with daily life and make it holy, not to ignore it. Ugh.
I was never a fan of the lifestyle or priorities of the yeshivish world anyway. So its not like I am throwing out any baby with any bathwater. I could easily list a dozen major problems I have with the community. So its not like my attitide is solely based on the shidduch process.
Judaism is not a religion for isolationists. We are told to engage with daily life and make it holy, not to ignore it. Ugh.
Judaism was a religion structured to have a full time preistly class supported by those engaged with the world. The ancient Levii'm had no soil to till. The system correction we really need is not a reduction of the learning class (really a drop in the bucket) but a renaisance of the values of spirituality and Torah learning among the millions of Torah ignorant and disaffected Jews.
If they VALUED Torah we'd have more donors and Kolleniks could survive on Kolle checks and there'd be no need for PhDs.
The kollelniks arrogantly self select. They were not chosen by a higher being to serve any purpose for klal yisroel. You metaphor doesn't hold. They are not a "class." They are a self selected sect.
What do they add to this klal yisroel who is so lacking in spirituality and torah? Are they making a difference? Is any even tiny percent using their free ride to learn to then do something to improve the problem you observe? If not, and it seems not, the money will go to support causes deemed more worthy.
And if you think kollelniks need support, we are no longer farmers tilling soil. We are academics, just like them, developing scholarship and professional know how of the same world that your kollelniks are. Except the rest of us support our own families, give something to the world even if it is just to keep the economy going, and give the tzedakah. Taking and taking is what the kollelniks do. They are no kohanim. Just a bunch of people who decided they are somehow the deserving group of other people's money by virtue of the fact that they decided to not get a job.
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