1. That the period of prophecy ended when the אנשי כנסת הגדולה = "men of the Great Assembly" successfully prayed for the elimination of the יצרא דעבודה זרה =inclination towards idolatry. It was determined On-High that a world in which true prophets still roamed but that lacked a nearly carnal yen for offering animal sacrifices and libations to bronze figurines would be one in which the deck was stacked too much in favor of good. Suspending true prophecy was the way to level the playing field for evil.
READ MORE AFTER THE JUMP
2. There's a classic question of the seeming contradiction between the Torah-Mandated dogma of human free-will and the "hardening" of the Egyptian Pharaohs heart. A famous answer in Rishonim explains that this hardening of the heart did not remove his free choice but had actually restored it. You see,while being battered by plagues no frail human being could really "choose" between obedience to G-d or insubordination in the matter of liberating the slaves . The plagues were coercive. Absent heart-hardening, Pharaoh would never have been tough enough to resist freeing the slaves. So HaShem granted him an extra dose of courage and strength to restore balance to his personal free-choice playing field.
3. The zuhg attributed to the Chazon Ish opining that tremendous spike in various forms of Cancer in the mid twentieth century was due to the advances in antibiotics and vaccines that had just about eliminated crippling and fatal childhood diseases. The fear was mankind would be filled with hubris because of their own self-sufficiency in battling disease and no one would pray, repent or otherwise turn to G-d when in need of healing. So HaShem sent the מכה קודם לרפואה to balance the hubris and self-sufficiency with a little humility and neediness. (Who knows? Now that we have people refusing to vaccinate their kids and terrorists ready, willing and able to use biological WMDs maybe we'll finally discover the cure to Yenna Makhlah)
4. The standard Khizuk Schmooze one hears when they are up against it. To wit; consider your suffering and challenges a Divine compliment. G-d knows exactly whom to test with a difficult nisayon. Others in your place would fall through but you OTOH possess, or were empowered recently, with fresh Kokhos to withstand this new nisayon.
This idea is best exemplified by a vort from the Ri"m on the posuk טז הַנֹּתֵן שֶׁלֶג כַּצָּמֶר; כְּפוֹר, כָּאֵפֶר יְפַזֵּר. = He giveth snow like wool; He scattereth the hoar-frost like ashes.which the Ri"m taitches as follows: If HaShem chooses to give someone the nisayon of freezing (metaphorically speaking) He'll only put him through as much snow as he has wool to insulate himself with, He will only scatter as much frost as the freezing fellow has firewood to burn into ashes and warm himself with.
Now with the possible exception of the Chazon Ish all these cases illustrate that when the powers of good grow too powerful HaShem corrects the imbalance by empowering evil. Yet it would seem that the opposite is equally true; that when the powers of evil grow too powerful a just and fair HaShem corrects the imbalance by empowering good .
If this is correct it begs a question that the upcoming Citifield Asifa puts into sharp relief. Granting for a moment that unfiltered internet access is an unprecedented and nearly irresistible nisayon in both Znus (אחרי עיניכם) and Qefira,(אחרי לבבכם) IOW a tremendous empowerment of Evil / Sitra Akhra et al where are the cosmic checks and balances? Where is the concomitant spike in the forces of Good / Sitra D'Qedusha that will empower us to have a fighting chance to win the battle against the internet?
I'd like to offer several possible and admittedly entirely speculative answers. IOW a bunch of my own boikh sevoras, (but hey after all, that's what blogs are for.)
A. The over half century build up of Torah and Chasidus In EY and the Diaspora has created a World-wide Kharedi Jewry that is more learned, more pious, more passionate, less persecuted, more numerous and more empowered than many preceding generations (according to some...of all time). OTC...it was the forces of good that were getting too powerful just like when the יצרא דעבודה זרה was eliminated. The advent of the internet was the way the Hashgokha Elyona evened the playing field again. Not so easy anymore to behave frum, hang on to your emunah and keep your hasmoda up with the internet calling you... is it?
B. The advances in filtering technology and, by extension, the ongoing exhortations of Rabbonim and the Asifa itself are themselves the counterbalancing measures. HaShem is telling us K'vYakhol "Sure I gave you the heat of the internet but I also gave you K9 and other filters to serve as air-conditioners to cool down with. " Earlier generations fought against the construction of Itzadyons. Ours fills them to capacity. They didn't need Khizuk and pep rallies on this level because they did not confront a test as deadly and powerful as the web...we do.
C. The counterbalancing measure against the internet is not here yet. However, as such, we should be eagerly awaiting a huge new, as yet unimagined, surge in Torah and Yiras Shomayim, maybe even the advent of the Messianic era itself! As great as they are the internet is too huge, too pervasive, too complicated and too powerful for our current leadership to tackle. Only מלך המשיח himself is equal to this challenge.
D. The internet itself is not an unmitigated evil. OTC מדה טובה מרובה as new Torah, Chasidus and Neginah sites pop up like mushrooms. For every Porn site there is L'Havdil a HebrewBooks.org. For every Oifgeklerta Blogger there is a TorahAnytime.com. For every LH gossip and hate filled blog there is the online Eichlers catalog.The web can be used to kill time or to cut bill paying from arduous writing of checks and sealing, stamping and mailing of envelopes to a few clicks to pay online freeing up 30 minutes when you can review the Daf again. This is Briskish in that it does not provide an answer but does away with the question. Our premise was wrong. The internet is not imbalanced to start with.
Of course choices A, C and D make the upcoming asifa partially or completely superfluous. But as these are boikh sevoros I'm hedging my bets. I've got my ticket and plan to attend.
בא המבדיל והעמידן על אחת
"Those who cannot tolerate Havdala cannot appreciate Qedusha"
45 comments:
For every LH gossip and hate filled blog there is the online Eichlers catalog.
Huh? How is the catalog the antithesis to LH gossip? I know how I would have completed that sentence. :-)
Nice thoughtful post as usual. Keep them coming.
Heard 1,2, and 4. Never heard 3 before. Personally, I find 4 to be patronizing and in bad form to say to someone who is suffering.
Why do you start with the assumption that the Internet is evil in the first place? Thankfully, you got to D in the end. I'm just not sure why you seem so embarrassed by the idea that you placed it last.
Let me try this one.
Internet can be declared inherently evil since it is similar to a wild west. No law.
There may be a place for certain info in society, such as bomb building material, pornography, etc.
Yet until the advent of the information superhighway, the spread of information was somewhat regulated. Children could not easily purchase porn, bomb making was for the scientific community...
Everyone agrees that cars are a great invention, but most would not give the keys to their 10 year old. Similarly, guns might not be pure evil, as they serve a purpose in society, but society usually regulates their use to keep them from doing harm.
Hence the internet, which is a super tool, is evil in that many are not parenting it the way they parent guns and cars.
Why do you start with the assumption that the Internet is evil in the first place?...you seem so embarrassed by the idea that you placed it last
From everything that I've heard until now "the Internet is evil" seems to be the approach of Gedolei U'Khakhmei Yisroel. The opinion expressed in D is basically reflective of the approach of excellent Bloggers Harry Maryles and Dovid Teitelbaum.
I'm still a Fundie remember? When Gedolim and excellent Bloggers have a dispute I side with the Gedolim. AAMOF if I was a Fundie braying even louder I would not even mention the other opinion alongside that of the Gedolim. hence the procrastination and correctly identified embarrassment.
"Bray Fan" makes an excellent point.
>Nice thoughtful post as usual
Thanks SomeHow. Ya Gotta admit. this is an original angle. I hope that it provokes some thought among the readers.
The approach of a cosmic balance that you're taking is interesting, but this asifa will not accomplish that. People are already aware of the issue and all of the solutions being proposed are already in existence and being used. The publicity this event is getting imo puts Orthodox Jews in a negative light and is borderline a chillul Hashem - presenting us as anti-technology, backwards, and reactionary. If they had only called the asifa as being "against pornography" instead, it would be completely different. Being "against the Internet" seems as wrong-headed as being against the printing press or the radio.
The wild west aspect of the Internet is certainly a problem. It's a problem that secular society is concerned with as well. Ironically, if these groups weren't so cloistered they would work with others outside the community in a joint effort to, at the very least, cordon off the smut and other content we don't want children exposed to.
The thing is, this is more about capitalism, saber-rattling, a show of power, and thought control.
Take a look at this recent Times article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/10/garden/when-children-see-internet-pornography.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
>capitalism,
Huh? The technology expo was cancelled and many ticket prices were cut in half. Wheres the profit motive?
>saber-rattling,
By whom? Who is the enemy that the rattling is designed to frighten?
>a show of power,
If you mean Rabbinic power well
A. For שלומי אמונה that's a good thing and
B. Considering the wild-west lawlessness isn't empowering the forces of Halkhiuc Law and Order a positive step? Think deputizing the posses in the wild west
>thought control.
Since when does the Torah grant absolute freedom of thought to her adherents? We need thought control as much as deed control and speech control if not more as the former controls the other two.
The approach of a cosmic balance that you're taking is interesting,
shkoyakh. Seminal I'd say ;-)
but this asifa will not accomplish that.
Don't be so hasty. I'm willing to take a wait and see attitude.
People are already aware of the issue and all of the solutions being proposed are already in existence and being used.
Rav Schorr שליט"א prposed something new @ the Agudah Convention. He or others might propose innovative approaches at the Asifa.
... puts Orthodox Jews in a negative light and is borderline a chillul Hashem
This is an old khakira of mine. If authentic Torah Views are misunderstood by secular Jewish or non-Jewish minds does broadcasting them constitute a khilul HaShem or a Qidush HaShem? I'm sure that under the Seleucid Greeks notions of an unseen single G-d were considered backward and reactionary.
If they had only called the asifa as being "against pornography" instead, it would be completely different.
different and superfluous. It would then have been like calling a rally to combat homicide or drunk driving.
Being "against the Internet" seems as wrong-headed as being against the printing press or the radio.
The differences between these various media , i.e. the totally hefker velt and instant easy accessibility of the Web make your analogy fallacious.
The event is sponsored by the people who sell the filtering software that adherents will be asked to purchase.
The saber-rattling is directed at those members of the community who don't fall in line behind whatever the gedolim advocate. There are those members who secretly (or not to secretly) use the Internet without filters, ostensibly for "business" purposes. This is meant to put further communal pressure on these people.
The show of power is against other sects and the rabbis of other sects. So, it's not so much rabbinic power as it is power for certain rabbis.
As for thought control, there's been reports that the filters which are being advocated are already blocking the website of a rabbi who came out against the asifa. I don't think this is something the Torah would support.
"Rav Schorr שליט"א prposed something new @ the Agudah Convention. He or others might propose innovative approaches at the Asifa."
Details?
In terms of chillul Hashem, there are proper ways to convey Torah ideals to secular or non-observant society. For example, there are ways to present taharat mishpacha to the masses that make it appear to be about intimacy and communication and ways that make it seem anti-woman and backward. Advertising a convention against a technology as opposed to the negative influences and effects of the technology would have put the proper spin on this.
There are rallies and walks and such against violence and drunk driving and such. What's your point?
As for the printing press, for example, tell it to the myriads of leaders at the time who were frightened about this revolutionary technology. Put things in perspective - you go from only very wealthy having access to some information to every person having access to all the information in existence at the time. As an interesting example, many Christian religious leaders put a ban on the bible itself - they were afraid the masses would read the bible and misunderstand it and become heretics.
Rav Schorr proposed 24 hour internet centers in frum neighborhoods, with filtering and monitoring, as an alternative to in-home internet service.
Basically Internet cafes without the cafe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTHI7A9U2zM
they were afraid the masses would read the bible and misunderstand it and become heretics.
They were right. Their only mistake was that they too were part of the masses. Idiots accessing nuanced and sophisticated information is a dangerous thing. We consider the day that the Torah was translated to Greek a disaster.
אכתוב לו רובי תורתי כמו זר נחשבו
in the spirit of kliph koden l'pri, maybe the internet is here to prepare us for u'malah ha'aretz de'ah es hashem
That's positively Kookian. I like it. Shkoyakh and come around more often.
How do you really feel?
Anonymous is correct. I've made this point in several of my blog posts (in fact in my first post ever) on how technology reaffirms our Emunah. Radio, TV and now internet (YouTube) make it all real for us to realize that all our actions are recorded and will be shown to us after 120.
Additionally, the internet, which will eventually be worn on our wrists, will allow everyone to witness Moshiach's arrival simultaneously.
Baalabatish,
feel about what? be specific and I'll bl"n try to answer candidly.
For Crying Out Loud! this post now has over 600 views. I guesstimate that over 120 of you have actually read it from start to finish. Can't we muster more than 17 measly comments 7 of which I wrote myself?
If you think I'm nuts post a comment. If you think I'm a seminal thinker post a comment. If you think I'm somewhere in between post a comment. If you have the sources for the balanced-bechira citations post them. If you think that the other commenters are on or off the mark take up the cudgels and enter the rhetorical fray.
What is it about this fetid stinking Red-Tent blog that discourages discussion. that makes comments and contributions stillborn on the keyboard before hitting the "enter" or "publish" button?
If your only thought is "Couldn't have put it better myself" לכל הפחות post THAT!
"If you think I'm nuts post a comment. If you think I'm a seminal thinker post a comment. If you think I'm somewhere in between post a comment."
All of the above. :)
"What is it about this fetid stinking Red-Tent blog that discourages discussion. that makes comments and contributions stillborn on the keyboard before hitting the "enter" or "publish" button?"
Don't ask me, I'm "pro-life" as it were. :)
It's hard to disagree with your analysis since you've included so many options.
Anyway, as anon has said, and I've agreed above, it makes much sense that the internet is the plan of the one above to have HIS message dispersed worldwide. Not a Kooky idea at all. :-)
Sorry I'm a bit of a mystic. I thought that instant access to data electronically is a mere Moshol or פועל דמיוני for what we will experience through our very senses, the ones we have now miraculously augmented or new ones that we will become equipped with, in the era of u'malah ha'aretz de'ah es hashem
Shkoyach my old pals JS and SomeHow but quite frankly my comment above was a shameless, comment-wh*re primal scream begging for new commenters to express their opinions. Still I appreciate your efforts to dry my tears.
The Internet is a tool just like a private car is a tool. The Internet can bring you to inappropriate sites, and the car can bring you to znus places outside your neighborhood.
Mark SoFla
two great differences:
1. Ease of access
2. Lack of possible witnesses/ detection
Another difference is that while znus places are indeed plentiful, identifiable and automobile-accessible, Loshson Hora and Qefira places are much less so.
Where can one drive to to hear OrthoPrax like broken-record repetitions of no TMS , no resurrection and no authentic Holidays and Customs like they canon the world-wide-web with the mere push of a button ?
BP Unbound did a much better job of this than you on Tzigs Blog. But thanks for deigning to comment in the fetid Red-Tent. Do come again.
I have to queation your entire premise of some cosmic equilibrium. Less then 10% of the Jewish world today considers themselves observant. A huge %age decline from earlier generations. How does that fit with G-d lending a hand to the average Joe who is trying to use his bechira to fulfil the kavanah elyona? The cards are stacked against us, my friend. We'll prevail despite the inequality.
I have to queation your entire premise of some cosmic equilibrium. Less then 10% of the Jewish world today considers themselves observant. A huge %age decline from earlier generations. How does that fit with G-d lending a hand to the average Joe who is trying to use his bechira to fulfil the kavanah elyona? The cards are stacked against us, my friend. We'll prevail despite the inequality.
and what if I told you that 75% of the earlier generations who were not Tinokos shenishbu failed and exercised their free will to make incorrect/ death/ evil choices despite having a level playing field???
part of the dogma of free-will is that G-d's perfect infallible foreknowledge , mysteriously, does not interfere with it. He forces no one to make their choices. We alone are responsible for them. At least insofar as our Bekhira points are concern.
A - I disagree. technology with tv, video games, etc. was already widespread and pervasive enough to level the playing field even before the rise of the Internet
B - I disagree. The explosive amount of kfira and mockery of rabbis on the web and the easy access to it cannot be filtered. Likewise, the rabbis exhortations aren't likely to stand a chance in counterbalancing. It's like the walls of the ghettos are coming down again and only the most committed will persevere. A counterbalance would be if they actually adressed the issues that are being raised, be it academic issues or social ones.
C. As a pessimist I agree. We need mashiach for this one.
D.- definitely the best one. Also, add on the benefit of being a deterrent to evildoers that know if they are caught they will be exposed to the whole world .
That's my point, there may never have been a 'level playing field'.
Say you have a class where 90% of the students fail the grade. Is the problem likely to be with the teacher or the students? In our nimshal klal Yisroel is not the teacher.....
Care to rethink your essay that is based on some utopian'level playing field'?
Btw, I'm new here and for what's it's worth, I think your a seminal thinker and nuts ;)
JR
A.I think that K'lal Yisrael grew stronger, in numbers in Torah study and in diqduq b'mitzvos over the past twenty years despite the rise in TV and video games. The web represents a stronger counterbalance IMO
B. Likewise, the rabbis exhortations aren't likely to stand a chance in counterbalancing.
It's not so much the exhortations although even on this I take a wait and see attitude. It's the presence of 40,000 plus like-minded individuals who are willingly coming to hear tokhakha and get a tongue lashing. Deep emotional commitments are often forged in huge crowds. Will it be a case of preaching to the converted? Probably. But at least these "converted" and their families / spheres of influence will feel fortified and more committed to the cause of NOT trying to figure out how to bypass filters.
It's like the walls of the ghettos are coming down again and only the most committed will persevere.
I hope that you are wrong but fear you may be right in which case we are looking at the disaster of massive disaffection and opportunities for intermarriage that the liberated ghetto dwellers could never have dreamed of.
A counterbalance would be if they actually adressed the issues that are being raised, be it academic issues or social ones.
Not sure. Look to the historical model. 150-200 years ago did the Shloimeu Emunah Rabbonim and Rebbes "engage" the maskilim in debates and disputations or did they just circle the wagons of their remaining flocks? The great-grandchildren of the Shloimeu Emunah are still identifiable Jews.The great-grandchildren of the Maskilim are 90% Goyim.
I don't know if the snarky J-Bloggers today attacking and undercutting Torah and Rabbinic authority don't understand the fire that they are playing with or, so convinced of their own heresies, just don't care. They are doing nothing less than checking themselves out of K'lal Yisrael and Jewish Eternity.
Anonymous-
first off welcome aboard and PLEASE come up with a handle-name so we can distinguish you from other Anonymous'.
What if the same teacher using teh same syllabus had other classes with a 90% pass rate and still other classes that scored near the top in standardized national exams? There were generations of mostly Tzadikim and generations of mostly reshoim. All had free will .
In my opinion, the biggest risk to Orthodox youth leaving the fold (or, going off the derech, if you prefer) is social issues (bein adam l'chaveiro), not viewing pornography or anything else on the Internet.
It's a distinction between that which is a sin and that which destroys your soul. For all the talk about pornography on the Internet and the problems it causes, I've never heard of someone leaving Orthodoxy over it. It's mostly a private sin with no real victims except perhaps in the rare case where someone becomes so obsessed they neglect their spouse and children (and I'd posit the person had other underlying issues beforehand).
I'm not trying to make light of pornography as Orthodoxy views it, but the fact remains that it is a private and victimless sin. The sin exists solely between the person and God.
Compare to the recent rally in Williamsburg to support an alleged child molester. Compare to the financial fraud that is perpetrated far too often. Compare to the support for an attempted murderer by firebombing. Compare to all the other hypocrisies and corruption we hear all too often over Shabbos meals, in newspapers, or on blogs.
THIS is the stuff that withers the soul more than any sin. This is the true danger in our communities. This is what leads people to lose their faith and go off the derech or become disillusioned. This is what leads to soulless automatons who go through the motions but have lost all feeling for Yiddishkeit.
And, I would add, that asifas like this one and the millions of dollars poured into it, and the massive effort to rally people for it, is also soul-damaging; it shows warped communal priorities and twisted agendas.
No sin is victim-less. Is suicide victim-less? The first and foremost victim is the sinner him/herself as we are not punished for our sins but by them. If u believe in metaphysics and arvus, as i do then u believe that my mitzvos and averos affect you positively or negatively and vice versa.
The Baalei Mussar placed the emphasis on bein Odom L'chavero. The Khasidified present we put more emphasis on inyoneu Qedusha i.e. reigning in the libido. But I'm not sure that this really represents divergent Weltanschaungs. I've seen in a variety of seforim that the covenant of the skin/ flesh/ reproductive organ is linked to the covenant of the mouth/ speech.
Case in point in Ger where are obsessed about inyoneu Qedusha perhaps as no place else the Sifrei Chofetz Chaim are mega-popular.
The so called victim-less sins are also soul-withering. Ask any formerly diligent Torah student AKA masmid who became a porn-watcher if it did not have an adverse impact on his ardor for Torah study.
Although I'll grant you that every bein Odom L'chavero.is a double sin as it is an offense against another human being as well as an offense against the Supreme Being.
<>
My PDA is not allowing me to post with a handle. Will use <> as my identifier.
So it seems you dispute the notion that environment has an affect and believe it is a statistical anomaly that generations have mostly tzadikim or mostly failures? further, you seem to reconcile a 'level playing field' with a 90% fail rate. How?
On how daas Torah dealt with maskilim:
We know that spirtual foresight was hidden at times from our leaders (e.g. The many tzadakim who perished in the holocaust b/c they understood staying put as the best approach). Imho, circling the wagon was part of what let to a 90% loss rate. I fear doing that again with modern youth will lead to the same terrible results.
Of course environment has an effect , potentially both positive and negative, but however environment affects a particular generation or individual the Divine Scale Balancer Yisborakh אשר לו נתכנו עלילות manipulates other factors, both internal/ unseen/ metaphysical and external/ overt/ historical to level the playing field. All the generations that had a 90% failure or success rate could just have easily reversed the ratio.
Imho, circling the wagon was part of what let to a 90% loss rate.
Why place the blame at the feet of the Khakhomim instead of the feet of the Maskilim? Besides it is a firm hlakhic principle that we do not engage JEWISH Apikorsim in debate. Times have changed. Todays purveyors of Deos Kozvos are themselves for the most part Tinokos Shenishbu and Torah ignoramii. Not so the original Maskilim.
Bray,
You skirted the main issue I brought up. Watching pornography has an adverse effect on the person (due to the sin) and potentially has an adverse effect on the person's family if it becomes an obsession. But, no one else is effected. Even if you want to get metphysical, it's hard to imagine one person's pornography watching having any greater effect on klal than any other sin would.
The point being unless I heard that some gadol or other prominent communal leader was a porn-obsessed lowlife, it would have no soul-withering effect on me. If I hear that Yankel is a degenerate porn watcher, I just think the guy's got a problem and needs help. It doesn't make me question my Yiddishkeit or the truth of our approach to God (or even the existence of God).
Compare this to child abuse cover ups, support for suspected offenders, and further communal abuse and revictimization of the victim and the victim's family. The harmful effect here is not just the terrible abuse perpetrated on the victim, it's not just the harmful effect on the sinner him/herself, it's not even the metaphysical effect felt throughout klal - the REAL harmful effect is how it makes people question their Yiddishkeit. It makes people question how Judaism or Orthodoxy could possibly be the path to God if these are the values it espouses. It forces one to wonder what value Torah has if those who study it daily for decades can be so hopelessly corrupt and misguided. It makes one doubt whether there even is a God.
That is the fundamental difference. That is why this asifa is at best a sideshow and at worst a further demonstration of how perverted our communal value system has become.
it's hard to imagine one person's pornography watching having any greater effect on klal than any other sin would.
Really? Rav Chaim Volozhiner compares it to what Titus did by bringing a Zonah into the inner Sanctum and having sex with the zonah on an unfurled sefer Torah, except because it is a Jew and because it is in the inner snactum of soul rather than space....IT IS WORSE!
>revictimization
Never heard that word before. Is it of your own coinage? In any event it is GREAT! It really captures what victims have to endure to bring their victimizers to justice.
It's hard to argue that between the crisis of the nisyonos of internet use and Orthodox child sex-abuse that the former is the more severe or more damaging so I will hardly try. But in defense of the Gedolim who chose to fill CitField over the former and not the latter I will:
A. It's a sheer numbers game. While each individual case of internet porn and qefira is less damaging / devastating than each individual case of Orthodox child sex-abuse the ubiquitousness and exponentially increasing technology of the web means that there will be thousands of cases of internet porn and qefira per year compared to only scores of cases of Orthodox child sex-abuse. They are triageing , it's allocation of scarce resources. If you can stop 100,000 Jews from wearing Shatnes or 100 Jews from eating Khometz on Pesakh which would YOU choose to do?
B. The hope is that with counseling perps and victims of Orthodox child sex-abuse will recover (I know, a wak hope especially vis a vis perps as sex offenders are notoriously and incorrigibly recidivist) wheras when it comes to Qefira (and reading oifgiklerta J-Blogs as well as anti-Intelligent design sites among others it is very easy to be ensnared by Internet Qefira)there is no hope of Teshuva. כל באיה לא ישובון
I have no way to measure the "realm of the soul" - I do have ways of measuring the thousands who leave Judaism and Orthodoxy aside or who stay in the fold but are dejected and unemotional in their observance.
You can come up with as much hyperbole as you wish for what an individual's pornography watching is like in the spiritual realm. There's no way to dispute it and there's no way to meaningfully argue one way or the other.
All I know is that to my eyes and ears I don't see people having a crisis of faith upon hearing that others are viewing pornography. I see and hear people doing such over the child abuse scandal that is rocking the community.
The triage argument falls flat because their are other sins that every single member of klal probably does on a daily basis, but no asifa is called for them. Tens of thousands speak lashon hara daily, forget a bracha rishona or achrona, make our tefilot keva, etc. Granted you have to start somewhere and granted some of these have received attention already, but the fact that this was chosen speaks volumes on where the heads of the gedolim and community are (and by extension, are not).
We've entered an age where our leaders and the community as a whole have become obsessed with znus under the cover of kedusha. There is an unholy fascination with skirt lengths, tights, sleeve lengths, etc. covered up (excuse the pun) but talk of tznius. We see the same in removing or blurring pictures of even young girls, extreme separation of the sexes, and removal of even displays of sheitels. And now, add the Internet asifa to the list.
And yet, when it comes to REAL and ACTUAL problems of znus, real problems of perversion and sexual deviance - it is not only swept under the rug, it is not only ignored, the accused perpetrators are not only protected, but the VICTIMS are dragged through the mud and revictimized (I forget where I first heard the term).
So, this isn't an issue of therapy and making people whole (though it's not to be ignored). It's an issue of communal myopia, of the yetzer hara disguising itself in the cloak of the yetzer tov (you're not ignoring these other problems! you're just focusing on an issue that's more widespread!).
I know I've said a lot, but I'd like to reemphasize my point that we've become obsessed with imaginary and ephemeral znus - we've built up geder upon geder to protect against even a hint of immodesty - while we've neglected and in many cases SUPPORTED actual znus.
And yet, when it comes to REAL and ACTUAL problems of znus, real problems of perversion and sexual deviance -
Child sex-abuse is not a sin /crime of lust/ passion/ sexual deviance. Even when the victims are seduced and not resistant it is a crime of manipulation, violence and control.
You can come up with as much hyperbole as you wish for what an individual's pornography watching is like in the spiritual realm. There's no way to dispute it and there's no way to meaningfully argue one way or the other.
I find the words of Rav Chaim Volozhiner non-hyperbolic, credible and, hence, very meaningful. He knew and understood the small point-size letters. I'm not sure if you are entitled to your opinion.
That said you and a host of others make sound apparently cogent arguments. But Emunas Khakhomim includes negating my opinions not just in the face of individual piskei Halakha and/or hashqafa statements but in how to prioritize things and set the agenda.
"Child sex-abuse is not a sin /crime of lust/ passion/ sexual deviance. Even when the victims are seduced and not resistant it is a crime of manipulation, violence and control."
Certainly. I think modern psychology and criminology agree with you. I think from a Torah perspective, it's considered a form of znus, though.
Emunas chachimim is fine, but it doesn't hurt to try to encourage them to do a little cheshbon hanefesh on where our priorities lie and where the real problems are.
No comment on the obsession with sex among our leaders in the form of, e.g., tznius that is covering up the true sexual issues?
focusing attention and combat strategy != "obsession".
If Eisenhower had been a little less "obsessed" about D-Day you and I would be lampshades now.
Way to "skirt" the issue.
I'm sorry. I can't agree with those who opine that they are sex-starved maniacs.
A high threshold for arousal may or may not be the sign of good mental hygene. It is certainly NOT an indication of Qedusha.
Let me rephrase:
Here are issues that get attention in the Chareidi community: how women are dressed vis a vis tznius, whether women and young girls should be obscured or taken out of publications, women sitting at the back of the bus, sheitel displays in storefronts, women needing to look prettier to get a shidduch (perhaps through surgery), spending millions to create separate seating or simply not inviting women to events, denegration of rabbis or feminists who push for more equality in Orthodoxy vis a vis a maharat, women's tefilah groups, or questioning sh'lo asani isha, etc. etc. etc.
Issue not receiving any attention: child abuse. Or, worse, circling the wagon around accused perpetrators and blaming victims.
You don't like the implications behind "obsession" - fine (though, I never said anything about sex-starved maniacs, that's your words).
The common theme in all these issues is gender and sexual attraction. Glaringly, one issue is not deigned fit to be discussed or dealt with in a responsible manner.
OK. U got in the last word (but I got in what will, no doubt, be the last comment in this thread);)
So you would think...
Excellent article, though IMHO- it understates the counterbalancing positives of the internet.
Can you even imagine the good effects and chain reactions set in place by a site like chabad.org (and other similar sites) where hundreds of thousands, if not millions,are exposed to the Torah truth on so many issues, not to mention actual study of Torah that these sites facilitate. The beneficiaries are mostly people that a generation ago would have been left to die in ignorance and/or apathy.
Sites like hebrewbooks.org represent a quantitative AND qualitative leap in the level of limud hatorah among those who do know how to learn. The new reality is that so many people who would or could never have been able to access such tools and resources now do. These are benefits of the internet that cannot be overstated, and sadly, methinks the gedolim behind this conference remain unaware of their true value and import.
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