2. Borukh Shehkeevahntee. Rav Wachsman addressed the Cosmic Imbalance when he said (I paraphrase) "Klal Yisrael must rise like a Lioness. Earlier generations were stronger than us and did not have to battle as grave a nisayon as us." Which left me scratching my head. How are weaker people supposed to make a fight of it against stronger opposition? But at least he mentioned it.
3. I am bilingual and had no problem following all the speakers except for the Skulener Rebbes Mashba"k. Nevertheless Rabbi Wachsman was my favorite speaker (full disclosure I left before Rav Mattisyahu Solomons talk). This seems to be the consensus among all the English Speakers that I spoke to. I wonder how the ESLers felt. Has anyone either spoken to many of them or monitored their blogs/ newspapers?. I wonder who their favorite speaker was.
4. For once I am basically speechless and at a loss for words. There is much to assimilate and process.
18 comments:
Wait. You were at the asifa? I thought I saw you! Black hat, beard, white shirt, black suit?
What's there to say? We've all given up our spot in the world to come. Personally, I'm a bit relieved. All this doubt and suspense (Will I get in? Will I not get in?) was really keeping me up at nights.
Not something to be flippant about.
Seriously, do you really think your blogging in against "baseline Halacha"? or utilizing hebrewbooks.org? The most you could say is that there is a new geder or takana that you have to follow to be part a certain community.
But even that, who are we kidding? There was no single uniform message or pesak. You know very well, that as much as they want to pretend that this is unifying everyone, it isn't. The only thing everyone agrees upon is that there is a dangerous tool called the internet. How to deal with it is subject to a variety of opinions like everything else in our religion throughout all of galus.
Just because this was done with all the fanfare and publicity, doesn't mean every chareidi rav agrees to its message or solution. One big posek who is in all likelihood not even aware of what benefits the Internet has, proclaimed it assur. Big deal. My sense is that most rabbanim in America disagree ( at least with a filter) and in a little while when they realize nobody listened and the Internet becomes even more of a necessity, they will moderate their views anyway. אין גוזרים גזירה שאין הציבור יכול לעמוד בה and soon they will realize this. Even chazal hat to retract gzaeiras for this reason. The only difference is that they didn't spend millions before they realized. What a shame. It hurts.
Jr,
Mostly agree except for the last part. I think there's a section of Orthodoxy that is moving full-steam ahead, no looking back, on a one way street to the "right" for lack of a better word. They won't moderate their approach. They'll just insist the true believers in klal listen to the words of the chachamim (i.e., them) while the rest have no place in the world to come.
They're not going to dial things back or admit things have gone too far. They're not going to one day slowly start putting innocent pictures of girls and women back into publications (see the new cover of the book on Rebbetzin Kanievsky). They're not going to say "You know what? We were a bit hasty on this whole Internet thing."
I think it's only a matter of time before Orthodoxy is torn apart at its seams. Orthodoxy isn't a big enough word to accommodate all the viewpoints emerging on this issue and myriad others.
JS
Could be you are right. Definitely concerning the more extreme elements among us. But it's also possible some others will realize but not admit to it. It will never be a public admission of fallibility, just less and less rabbanim jumping on the bandwagon. Maybe.
I'm not saying whom it's binding upon or whether the future will prove that it was גזירה שאין הציבור יכול לעמוד בה or not . I'm merely noting the irony of some Kharedi bloggers much more unreservedly supportive of the asifa than me (and those there heard from Rav Wachsman, based on Igeres HaRambam, that they either toe the line or are out of the K'lal)would upload posts to celebrate the asifa.
Kol makom shazker es shemi... You mention me and here I am :)
As to my blogging, I will address this on my blog in the near future, for the time being, see baba kamma 83a.
Bray, I actually thought of you during the Asifa. I looked around at the Chassidim to my (physical) left and the Lakewood crowd to my right, and I thought about your now famous post about the "chasidification" of Jewry.
Not in a bad way, I am supportive of the trend and very supportive of the asifa, but just an observation.
ACK
Good catch. Purely anecdotal but where I was sitting the Khasidim outnumbered the Yeshivaleit / Yeshivisha Baalebatim by around 20-1. Also with the exception of Rav Ella Ber (who IMO did a very poor job of concealing his boredom if not outright disdain) many of the Litvisha Roshei Yeshiva were seated up on the less prestigious upper dais.
Kol makom shazker es shemi... You mention me and here I am :)
Indeed! All thanks to the instantaneous communication afforded by the technological magic of the point and click internet....;-)
Bray - They had no choice but to set up the dais that way. Let's be realistic, this was Lakewood driven (I think having Menashe Frankel as MC made that obvious), but they needed to fully attract the Chasidishe crowd to fill up the stadium, which worked. Which of course led them to cater the speeches and atmosphere to best make the majority of Chasidim feel at home.
Don't think that I am knocking the asifa. I think that it was a real success. I know that among my friends there is a real effort to change for the better. I am hearing constant talk of filters and the like.
So the Realpolitik price of Akhdus is being poigeya in the kovod of TKs? I guess this is a textbook of עת לעשות לה' הפרו כבוד תורתיך
A new movement?
Blogger The Bray of Fundie said...
Good khakira, but I think RWMO might be a more logical destination than Chabad. After all what is Chabad today but RWMO with the Rav instead of the Rov Levush and Messianism?
More and more often these days I am troubled by the thought that I have the mind and soul of a YU guy stuck in a Kharedi body / culture.
Wednesday, May 23, 2012 11:27:00 AM
Anonymous StamADeyah said...
Hey BoF, I share your pain - I'm in the same boat!
Glad to see you stopped suppressing it though like you were tryng to before the assifa and finally came to terms with it.
My nechama is that although in today's dor our weltanschaung may be classified as YU, it's really just authentic Lita, the Lita that has been snubbed out and falsely claimed by the yeshiveshe chevre (see your post on that one).
The problem - and the reason why the nechama ain't such a good one - is where do we bring up our kids; in what framework and infrastructure?
Ein lonu al mi l'hishoein ella al ovinu shebashamayim.
Hoshivo shoifteinu k'varishoina, v'yoiatzeinu k'vatchila, v'hosser mimenu yogoin va'anocho.
I feel like the Anshei Knesses Hag'doylah were looking at our dor when they wrote this bracha!
Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:35:00 PM
Anonymous LkwdGuy said...
More and more often these days I am troubled by the thought that I have the mind and soul of a YU guy stuck in a Kharedi body / culture.
I have felt this way for quite awhile (although I'm not sure I would call it "the mind and soul of a YU guy). It's called Chareidiprax. We try to live our lives as ehrlicher yidden, being midakdek kala kchamura, spending our evenings, commutes and weekends engaged in limud hatorah to the best of our abilities while ignoring the increasing radicalism coming from our very own rabbonim and manhigim. Issues like asseh lcha rav and how to pass it along to our children are difficult but not insurmountable.
I am in the same boat. I try my best to bring up my children as frum as I can, without all the radical stuff. I give them my hashkofas even though it's against daas Torah. And above all, I stress good middos, without that, you are just creating a chillul Hashem which has no kaparah.
Bray, you ask a good question.
Yet each person must ask his Rav. I don't know that Eretz Yisroel can pasken for Lakewood, or Lakewood can Pasken for Brooklyn.
Whereas Rav Wosner is a powerhouse in Psak, nevertheless, you will find many Bochurim in America who shave. You will find many Bochurim in America who go to college.
Yet the Rabbonim in EY have paskened Assur.
It is a good question, and a hard question, but that is the best I can do for now.
Anonymous said...
A new movement?
Err that's a mezuman, not even a minyan...much less a movement! No take no solace, we are a tiny minority. the vast majority were happy and gratified by the Asifa and sensed no downside at all. At least not among all the 35 yer olds and under that I spoke with.
I hope no one else dies because I posted this comment:
http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2012/05/internet-caused-fatal-car-accident-haredi-rabbis-say-567.html
Meanwhile, I'm sure this is definitely NOT what caused that poor family to suffer tragedy:
http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2012/05/rabbis-should-investigate-alleged-child-sexual-abuse-victims-before-allowing-parents-to-call-police-456.html
saw the post but not uour comment. Were you using a different handle? Why not just copy and paste it and email it to me.
What has it to do with this thread? No one at the asifa drew a connect the dots from internet abuse and tragedies TTBOMK.
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